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Carlo Lope
Carlo Lope's picture
Duel on the top of a carriage
core rules

Hello folks!

I have been reading these forums for a few days but today I had this urge to create an account just because of a scene that's popped up into my mind.

I wanted to share it and ask for different points of view as how would you guys do it.

Let's see...

I guess everyone (or almost everyone) have at least thought about an epic duel between your hero and the villain on the top of a carriage that is dashing down a market street to the port with no horses. Slashing left and right while both are trying to be ON the carriage and not on the street with less teeth, and also avoiding clothes lines, balconies and such.

Now... About that scene and after reading here and there I had a few ideas of what could happen, (besides everything else that is already happening!) but I am not really sure about how to approach them.

First thing: Disarm. I know it has not been implemented but I, and I guess some of you, love disarm from the first edition. There is an example where a hero could create an opportunity using one raise to "disarm" a guard and throwing their pistol so another hero could grab it. In this case... what if the hero or the villain want to disarm each other? The scene of a duel that changes into a pugilist or a street fight is also very appealing. I considered a few options but I ended up with something like: the villain spends one raise to disarm the hero (or the other way around). That turns into a consequence that can be avoided if the hero or villain spends a raise right away... like catching the sword before it hits the ground or the window or whatever it hits.

Second thing: Throw off balance. One kick, in the face. The hero wants to throw the villain off the carriage (or the other way around). I guess I would take the same option I stated above. One raise (or more) to hit, instead of wounds, I create a consequence that the villain has to avoid using at least the same amount of raises or losing balance.

Then my imagination went wild and started with things like: Perhaps they lose balance but can use one hero(danger) point or one raise to be left hanging by one hand while their feet are hitting the ground, and then they curse when they see the hero(villain) on top looking at them with a smile and sword in hand.

Anyways, you get my point :P

What would you guys do? These things are bound to happen sooner or later in different scenes. I'm curious :)

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Salamanca
Salamanca's picture
Well, we wrote an entire 4 hour session that was a carriage race through a city so there are tons of options. My first thought was leaving an open opportunity to steer the carriage. Take that as often as you please to scrape buildings, aim for or avoid low signs, etc. My second thought is that this will be more dynamic if you leave it open for things to happen in the moment instead of heavy planning. I think Disarm creates OPPORTUNITIES instead of consequences. (The sword hangs from the edge of the carriage, grab it before we hit 3 or it falls). The character may have better plans than grabbing it but you give them a window. I also like the idea of opportunity windows for things like clotheslines, low signs and items to grab. They happen on specific actions and the player activates them to take advantage or they pass. ( say the hero sees the sign coming, if they activate it, the villain is distracted with his back turned and gets hit. If they pass, the villain also sees it and ducks.).
Alfredo Tarancón
Alfredo Tarancón's picture

You have a good example of this in Wick's short story Mai Innamorarsi, that he shared in the countdown to the ks... 

Evan Sageser
Evan Sageser's picture

I remember that the Knights of the Rose and Cross book had a carriage chase as their sample adventure. I ran it once when I was experimenting with 1e 7th Sea. It was very fun, particularly with the great many obstacles placed in the players' way as they went.

Also amusing was they had a value in guilders for everything the players might destroy during their chase, leaving them with a hefty bill presented at the end of it all (the Knights of the Rose and Cross are nice enough to pick up the tab though, as their certainly not about to let heroes go broke after a chase that daring.

Carlo Lope
Carlo Lope's picture

Where can I find his short story Alfredo? I checked around but couldn't find it. Don't tell me it's on this website and I'm blind :P (I bet it is and I am)

 

Salamanca. I said consequences because I think players and villains should be able to avoid being disarmed instead of having every now and then their weapons thrown into de air. In your case, the sword hanging from the edge of the carriage may as well be an opportunity created after they were disarmed with a consequence. I'm probably thinking too hard about this but it seems to me that consequences can be triggers for opportunities or they may turn into them. With this, a lot of things like chain reactions come to mind. Not that I mean countering an action and then the other one counters the counter but more like:

"The villain spends two raises to disarm the hero, creating a consequence at that very moment, the hero doesn't spend two raises and his sword flies off his hand to the very edge of the carriage. At that time it becomes and opportunity but on 2 raises, the sword will be lost. The hero thinks he can wait a bit more and he activates and opportunity for a low sign and ducks. The villain turns and is hit by the sign, leaving him hanging by one hand (if you want to extend the scene), he then has a consequence of spending a raise if he does not want to hit the ground. The hero, smiling, picks up the sword and that creates an opportunity for the villain to spend a raise to use it to pull the hero off too. Now, the hero and the villain are both hanging with consequences each round."

While I agree with you about leaving it open I think things like these will happen. The scene I described above may sound forced to some but if the rules are almost begging you to improvise and come with creative ways of doing things, reactions like that are not uncommon. What do you think then about "chain reactions" or consequences that create opportunities and vice versa?.

Same thought came to me when thinking about throwing someone off something, in this case the carriage. As written and the way I see it, the rules allow you to do this using one raise and that's it. I think a chance for the hero or villain should be given and that's why I came with the idea of a consequence until the action is done, pretty much like inflicting wounds and preventing them.

 

Salamanca
Salamanca's picture
One in the chain is fine, two is about the top end. After that you will probably be out of raises and we are back to rolling dice. (Or more probable, you are out of dice and my villain has some left). The key from my reading is that you do not want to nitpick the scene with tiny events. Save the consequence for really IMPORTANT stuff. A consequence should happen once in an action scene. More than that drains the hero's dice pool preventing them from being able to do heroic things.
⚡️Christopher
⚡️Christopher's picture

Both of your "questions" seem to be just normal actions, nothing special. But They definately fall under the "Sometimes…a Hero and a Villain…will each have an Action that runs counter to the other. Whoever spends the most on their Action gets it" (pg179).

 

Salamanca
Salamanca's picture
That will also solve it. Villain spends 2 to disarm and wins ties. Hero needs to spend 3 to keep his weapon. ( although I am in favor of ties always benefitting the defender)
Carlo Lope
Carlo Lope's picture

I also agree that ties should benefit the defender as they seem to work more like wounds. 

Thanks! It helped me understand things a bit better :).

Cthulhu Netobvious
Cthulhu Netobvious's picture
Also fits within the rules of traditional warfare. With all things being equal (in terms of terrain, weapons), the attacking force still usually needs to be three times larger than the defending force to have a chance at good success (and not just a Pyrrhic victory).

TAJ-07: Technopriest And Justicar Of 7thSea2e