(If this isn't the correct forum, feel free to move this.)
So for various reasons, I've attempted to convert El Fuego and Laerdom to second edition, and I'm looking for some feedback on what I've done.
I like the premise, but I have some concerns about your approach. I'm hoping to find some time soon to really dig into it (at work and I have my own homebrew on the docket), so I'll have to make this first response short.
With El Fuego Adentro:
Laerdom is a much different kettle of fish.I've been looking at a hack for it myself, and while we are on similar pages (and you have already taken the rune effects into consideration), I think there's some necessary changes.
Just my initial impressions, of course. I hope they help!
"Smilies exist because no one's bothered to create a sarcasm font." --Lost_Heretic
It's a first draft, so if definitely needs some work. That said.
- You basically have my goals right with the second point. This Sorcery is dangerous to use because despite magically controlling Fire...fire is still fire, and its volatile and hard to control. I'm not sure if I'm spiking the Danger Pool too hard, but I do want (at least for the Major Shapings) hooks for ways for things to spiral out of control.
- For Firebird, I was unsure about a good hook really. I was thinking about a possible way to leave an obvious trail in the sky...but invoking that hook basically just screams to the players "And you are going to be followed."
- Yeah, I guess I could just assign Strength 5 to the snake, and have it degrade 1 per turn.
- My thought was for the sequence essentially. Does that seem reasonable?
- I'm not sure having to draw it is any more of a big deal to accomplish 90% of the time. I can add it that you have to physically carve the rune or draw into onto something...but again, it would just be flavor that isn't actually an obstacle to its use most of the time. I'm fine adding a stronger requirement to Invoking, but drawing it is something that would likely just be glossed over anyway.
- Yeah, I was thinking about altering Inscribe. I think limiting the number of items you can maintain equal to your number of purchases in sorcery reasonable, and it's simple enough to remember.
- I say you have two runes per purchase in the How it Works section...though I'm definitely willing to alter that number. Runes cannot be improved in power, so 3 could also be a reasonable number of runes per purchase. That would take 6 Sorcery Advantages to get them all.
- I didn't want to make some runes more mechanics heavy than others. I can readd them to the weather effects (beyond the lightning bolt one, I think that's fine) if you don't think it would be overkill.
I am glad to see that we are on similar pages and can be civil about this! Too many times I've worked with people on projects like this only to get vitriol. Hopefully we can remain so and make this awesome!
Again, just my opinions, feel free to take them as such. I'll try to find some time to look at the runes tonight if it is slow.
I'm not driving, so it's going to be tough to get me angry.
- So basically this: One using a Major Shaping the GM may gain a Danger die, or immediately introduce a consequence related to the fire effect produced. And then just make that universal, and keep Minor Shapings the way they are. Basic Hero Point activation.
- Okay, but if it is drawn, it should be in a semi permenant manner. You can't trace a rune in the dirt, but you can paint it on a tree or something, or cut into into a wooden building.
- As for how long they last, I was thinking one seqence/ scene?
- Yeah, I'm going with 3 runes a purchase.
- This is feasible, though the emotional effects will be more narrative, which seems to fit things. Now, is it worth letting them rebuy the rune to get both effects? Or should it be you choose one of them, and that's what you are stuck with? I'm leaning towards the latter.
You're right, we're not driving: we're sailing into territory that looks vaguely familiar but drastically different :-D
Sorry for the longer post, jus wanted to get all of the ideas out there before I (potentially) vanish for a few days.
Mostly that only driving seems to make me angry <_<...so you are unlikely to do so. :P
El Fuego Interior (Name "Officially" Changed)
Also, the sheet has been updated.
Glad to know that I won't be making you angry here :-D
Thanks for updating the sheet. I'll be looking it over and creating a new comment on it soon. Not sure if that will happen today or another time this weekend (my wife is making a big deal of my birthday), but it'll happen soon. Until then, my responses to what you replied:
More to come later on when I can look at the whole thing again.
- Each person can invoke each rune once per scene, so so a person activating an inscribed rune does not prevent you from activating it. So yeah, that's basically what I was going for.
- Typo fixed
- Quite, clarified
- Clarified again
- Storsæd - Yeah...the changes overall kind of made this useless. Ultimately, what it needs to do is give the user a way to support another. Maybe feed someone else your raises? Something like that?
- Well...I suppose you technically could, but given they don't stack, it's pointless.
- I wanted some sort of cooldown to make it slightly better than a gun. Perhaps that it just hits and causes a dramatic wound?
- Making the skill considered 2 higher is probably good.
I am tremendously in favor of what you did with El Fuego Adentro thematically. It's something I've been planning to do myself once I got around to converting the system - fire as a metaphor. Shaping physical flames, but also inflaming the passions, igniting love, seeing the future in fire, walking through fire, using fire to heal, giving people ideas (the flames of inspiration), etc.
If you''re adapting it, take that oportunnity to correct the name as well... El Fuego Adentro should be called Fuego Interior...
I'm willing to do it...mostly because I don't trust my own spanish anyway.
I've just noticed something that I hadn't realised before: Lærdom may be around anyway.
In the Vesten Raiders section of the Pirates and Privateers topic is this sentence
"Hysterical stories have begun to circulate about ships with rune-covered figureheads that can spit lightning and battle-maddened Raiders wearing horned helmets, shrugging off blows that should have killed them."
That to me sounds like an inscribed Vilskap and various other runes could be invoked to survive damage.
I actually commented on that in the early release as a note that it is a form of Laerdom, and asked if we are seeing Laerdom back or if this was accidentally left in their copy and paste of the Vesten/Vendel section of the 1st Edition books. Never got a reply on it, though.
It definitely seems to hint at Laerdom coming back, but my guess is they wanted to save that for a supplement? My guess about the "battle-madened Raiders" statement is that it was referring to bearsarks (as shown in the Vesten Background of the same name).
If you wanted a runic item effect in 2E, you could use the Signature Item Advantage. It occurs to me that you could just use Laerdom runes as flavor for some of the other Advantages - the bearsark's Hard to Kill coming from runes worn or tattooed on, for example. The figurehead they describe could just be a modified version of Signature Item for the ship itself, given as a unique Adventure reward: any Hero Crew could spend a Hero Point once per Round or Scene to have the ship appear where needed when lost, gain two Bonus Dice on a relvant Risk (like Sailing if it helps control winds, or Intimidation if it spews lightning), or the Wound effects as normal (or against enemy Crew) or converted to Hits (only against enemy Ships).
I agree that having a runic item could be summed up with Signature Item (and other effects can be summed up with advantages), but I think Monk's original goal (and I know this was mine) was to create a means of allowing temporary perks and bonuses as a form of sorcery that still matches original Laerdom.
In my humble opinion, I think it's a good idea to bring back Laerdom. This way, we can allow for effects that the current rules do not support (as some of the rune effects don't entirely translate into Advantages), as well as given the Vesten/Vendel something besides the ability to get a Yes/No answer, temporary give Reputation boosts, and people not able to hide their name. Interesting stuff, but not entirely sure if it's worth 4 points when a Losejas gets a similar effect for two points.
Oh, I'm in agreement that I want to see something along the lines of the original sorcery return, I was just throwing out some potential, previously-existing ways to model certain effects within the existing ruleset, or to use for guidelines with designing the sorcery.
The Seidr Advantage is a fun alternative (for now), especially with the ability to permanently change Reputations for characters, but I'm really interested to see Laerdom work within the new mechanics.
I have no problem with the Seidr advantage in a vacuum...I just figured it'd be more fun with the sorcery.
Though I mostly did this because I wanted Alchemist to be a non-Castille Specific advantage...and I figured I'd have to give them something in return. I'm not sure if I'll do any other Sorceries at this point (Eisen already has a new one, and I'm not familiar with the others).
After this may be trying to come up with new Duelist...or "Duelist" ideas.
I think part of this is for those fans who love the mechanics of 2nd Edition but want the setting of 1st Edition. I know quite a few people that are taking the best of both editions for their own tables; for example, one guy I used to game with loves the setting of 1st Edition and loves to plots he was working on, but he is loving how easy the rules are for 2nd Edition. End result? The desire to convert 1st Edition elements into 2nd Edition mechanics.
Others, myself included, loved certain elements of the 1st Edition and were upset to see them gone. While I'm indifferent about El Fuego (wasn't a huge fan of it in practice, but loved the theory), I respect these sorts of projects (thus why I offered input to finish them).