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Mark Lundequist
Mark Lundequist's picture
intimidate, convince, tempt
skills

These are essentially the same skill. These skills are all just a form of getting someone to do or giving us something we want.

Brawn + Convince is same as Brawn + Intimidate

Panache + Convince is the same as Panache + Tempt

Wits + Convince is the same as Panache + Convince when haggling or bluffing

This is another problem I find with such a small skill list seeing that I also feel there are skills that are more for the periid that are missing such as animal training or falconry?  Also what about engineering and science skills of the time. Granted I am basing this from what we received from the 1st edition, but there a lot of skills from the 1st Edition that need or should be expanded to this 2nd Edition. 

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Carlo Lope
Carlo Lope's picture

Though they can be seen as the same, I disagree at them being so. Convince does not necessarily mean forcing others to do what you want. Intimidate means that if they do not give you what you want, trouble is coming. Tempt means you are offering a reward of some kind (or not but they don't have to know) and convince is simply telling people is a good idea to help you.

For Brawn + Convince. Imagine yourself as a mercenary and you need to show you are in good condition (big muscles), you use brawn + convince so you are hired. I don't think intimidating your future patron is going to work in the same way :)

Using a similar example for Brawn. Using Panache + Convince may help you convince the butler that you know your way much better than anyone else at dusting the painting, without a doubt, while using tempting may grant you access without all the dusting thing and with less guilders in your pocket.

Wits + Convince can be used to say: Look, I served the king (you did) and these firearms are not bad. I know a few of the king's guard (you do) so tell you what, If you give me a discount I can promise I will tell them about this shop so you can be sure you will be richer sooner than later. Whereas Panache + Convince would be something like: Look, I served the queen (There was one.. right?) and I server as a privateer, I also saved the duchess life and I know all about firearms. See? This part of the pistol is not straight! - But sir... it is supossed to be that way! - ... Exactly! So you would be doing a great service to the king if you could give me a discount - Didn't you say the queen? - Not in Ussuran, friend.

 

That's the way I see it though.

⚡️Christopher
⚡️Christopher's picture

I agree with Carlo Lope, they are completely different skills. 

  • Intimidate is when you use force (or threat of force) to get someone to do something—the "stick"
  • Tempt is using the promise of a reward (money, sexual favours, revenge, etc) to get someone to do something—the "carrot"
  • Convince is using someone's own nature to get them to do something

Brawn + Convince is for convincing a warrior tribe that you are a worthy warrior, and they should help you. Brawn + Intimidate is "I'm going to beat you if you don't do what I want".

Panache + Convince is, in my opinion, the "standard" diplmacy roll. Panache + Tempt is bribary.

Wits + Convince is when using logic to get your point across. Panache + Convince is using your natural charisma and "you can trust me, I'm a good person" vibe.

While things may look the same on paper, in play they are going to be used for completely different things. I mean, trying to Intimidate someone who uses force will have more serious Consequences than trying to Tempt (bribe) them or Convince them you're not worth their time.

Salamanca
Salamanca's picture
By the old system, TEMPT is a combination of Bribery, Mooch and Seduction. CONVINCE is a combination of Oratory, Etiquette, Incitation, Politics, and Diplomacy. INTIMIDATION covers Intimidate, Interrogate and any of the above when done with a threat.
BluSponge
BluSponge's picture

Excellent! I have a player who dearly loved the idea of a mooch skill. So much so I had considered adding it back into the mix just for our game. I will hereafter direct him to the Tempt skill.  Thanks for the keen deconstruction, Sal.

Salamanca
Salamanca's picture
Everybody who played the old system should probably go through the knacks list and make themselves a converted list to help figure out which new skill to use. For GMs, it's very important for things that fall in SCHOLARSHIP and PERFORM ( which cover so many things)
Harliquinn Whit...
Harliquinn Whiteshadow's picture

Or we could just copy yours after you make it and make it available? :)

Salamanca
Salamanca's picture

After the con.  I am still at work and have about 5 hours of not sleep time before I leave for the con.  far too much to do for that.

 

Speaking of things I need to do after the con.  I was puzzling together a set of sheets for my GM screen ( i have a nifty one that lets you slip sheets in)  And I can't figure out what the hell they are going to fill a 2nd ed. screen with.  At best I can only figure up about 2 and a half sheets of info (and that included some full descriptions)  a list of skills, the benefits and penalties for taking dramatic wounds, rule for Pressures, uses for danger and hero points, how to gain hero points, duelist maneuvers, and steps in a sequence.  

Beyond that, I got nothing.

BluSponge
BluSponge's picture

Actually, it looks like Mooch was reborn as Inspire Generosity, advantage. Ditto Streetwise. So it's not just a matter of lining up skill to skill.

BluSponge
BluSponge's picture

I have plans for something of a GM Screen. I have all the material set aside, I just need to organize it. Where I'm getting stuck is collecting some idea generators for my GM notebook. Maybe I need to start a new thread for that.

Harliquinn Whit...
Harliquinn Whiteshadow's picture

I would love a resource that gives different types of Opportunities and Consequences for a lot of different scenarios. This would help for 'on the fly' scenes that players invariably get into. Something for Villains and their schemes would be nice too.

Carlo Lope
Carlo Lope's picture

All of the Arcana and ship rules, including naval combat I guess... but yeah, I don't know either.

Salamanca
Salamanca's picture
Players have sheets for Arcana and advantages. But don't let me derail this thread
Joachim Deneuve...
Joachim Deneuve du Surlign's picture

I agree that players should have their own info for advantages and sorceries.  What you need on the GM screen would be generic, but not easy information, so Duelist maneouvers and Naval battles might well be good options.

BluSponge
BluSponge's picture

Here's my list of what's going into the GM Folio I'm working on:

  • Traits List 
  • Skills List
  • Hero Points
  • Danger Pool
  • Wealth
  • Wounds/Dramatic Wounds
  • Healing/First Aid
  • Duelist Basic Maneuvers
  • Firearms
  • List of Common Weapons
  • Brute Squads
  • Consequences Guidelines
  • Shared Consequences Guidelines
  • Action/Dramatic Scene Guidelines
  • Influence Costs
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