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Francesco Panini
Francesco Panini's picture
Sanderis, the dievai's name
sanderis, sorcery, Sarmatian Commonwealth, Dievas, dievai, losejas, losejai

Hi guys !

I've had a look at most of the topics in both general discussion and core game rules forums and i didn't find the question i want to ask here (or the answer). But let me know if i'm wrong ^^
So here's my question.

One of my players plays a losejas, a sanderis sorcerer. He's quite powerful as he bought sorcery 4 times, and so his powers and relation with his dievas is the core if the character's story. Both his back story (where does he come from etc...) and his goal using the story mechanics actually.
She seems determined to try to destroy the dievas of her character thanks to the name's stuff, but here is my point : how does it work ?

i mean i understood how it is supposed to work, i know she has to guess the dievas's name thanks to the deals her character makes with the dievas, but i really don't know how to handle it in practice. It seems really difficult to me to offer her a deal related to the dievas's name AND related to the story or whatever is going on in the game. Well, what i really mean is i'm a bit (actually completely) lost with how to handle this in the game.

I've thought about writing a whole story for the dievas, somehow related to her name (yes the dievas is a female here), and each time my player wants to make a deal, i would ask for something related to that story. But i still would like to hear some feedbacks or advices.

So, how would you (or do you) handle this part of Sanderis ? What do you think about my idea ? Have you other ideas or tips ?
And, another question quite important, what kind of names do you give to your dievai ?
Or do you use a completely different system to handle the dievas/losejas relationship ?

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Giasone Vodocci
Giasone Vodocci's picture

I think Nations of Theah Vol 2 has some advice on the matter. Although from what I remember, each 'deal' is a two step story granting the next level of Sorcery. Get to seven deals and you can begin the 'Destroy the Dievais' Story.

Side note: Deal seven is not a two step story. And it eats all your Sorcery. Yes, your losejas takes on a dievais without magic.

Francesco Panini
Francesco Panini's picture

Ah ! But I don't have Nations of Theah vol 2 yet ^^

Yes i read the Sanderis chapter again and it does have something concerning the seventh deal, although it doesn't explain how it is supposed to work ingame (it doesn't talk about stories).
But even if it's a good idea in some way, I find it weird. I mean, some of the losejai keep their dievai for decades, maybe their whole life. With the circle and all the stuff i don't imagine the dievai being a kind of short parenthesis in the losejai's life. The minor favors are not intended to be that significant. It's not more powerful than other advantages, so that in a losejas life, it seems really easy to get to the seventh deal unless you're only calling for major favors.
Furthermore in game it's disappointing to get this magic if you know that you will only be allowed to use it seven times.

For now we're going to go with a home made story/rule. Each time she makes a deal with the dievas, she will have something to do, and i'll try to make it appear in further scenes or to make it really inconvenient to her, like by honoring the deal she might miss some opportunities or take consequences without being able to avoid them. Concerning the way to destroy the dievas, we will write stories of our own without taking into account the limitated number of deals. Deals are already supposed to corrupt your hero if you ask her to do something she shouldn't (or not to do something she should). It's limitating enough IMHO, depending of course on my capabilities to make potentially corrupting deals and her ability to turn it in a way that doesn't lead to corruption, which she managed to do pretty well for now.

Rossbert
Rossbert's picture

The deals and favors are different things. You can only make a deal 7 times with one, but you can ask as many favors as your corruption can handle.  I don't know what you mean about only getting to use it seven times.

Francesco Panini
Francesco Panini's picture

Oh ! I may have misunderstood something important then.

What i meant about only getting it seven times is this : As i understood it, you make a deal with your dievas to call for favors. Not to "purchase" sanderis magic, but to use it in your adventures when you need it. In exchange, the dievas asks you to do something. Let me give an example to be clear :
You're chased by some guards and need to hide. You may ask your dievas to use the shadow power which allows you to become almost invisible (hidden in the shadow and surrounded by it actually). The dievas asks you to buy some shoes to a woman she knows. If you accept, that is a deal. One of the seven deals you can make.

This is how i understood it but am I wrong ? Are deals the fact to "purchase" sorcery advantage in order to gain access to one of the sanderis magic, like shadow, fire... ?

Harliquinn Whit...
Harliquinn Whiteshadow's picture

You have it a big wrong (and more limiting) than it is meant to be.

The "Deals" are each purchase of the "Sorcery" advantage. You can purchase the Advantage (and gain access to a new domain) six times with no issue. It's taking the Sorcery advantage the seventh time (The 7th Deal) that causes issues.

You can call upon Favors as often as you like and are able to pay the Deivas's price.

Francesco Panini
Francesco Panini's picture

Ah ok, it feels more logical to me then ^^

It doesn't resolve the dievas' name question though, but my player and i have the feeling that this part is willingly opened so that we can do what we want to get the dievas destroyed. The book talks about the seventh deal but it says that all around that is pure theory or legends. So i think i will see with my player what she wants to do, and depending on it she will chose the story and i will imagine a way for her to destroy the dievas. Or I may play with these theories and legends to give her character some informations ingame, so that he will decide the way he wants to try to kill his dievas depending on the feelings he has about the different stories he hears...

Rossbert
Rossbert's picture

It is recommended (and I agree) to be a campaign ending plot. In part because going after a minor god should be pretty climactic and because the end result is killing off the character's access to a large chunk of the XP his player invested, which can make the character hard to play for some people.

Francesco Panini
Francesco Panini's picture

Yes that's what i was thinking about. I think it will be the last one of a whole serie of stories.

Antti Kautiainen
Antti Kautiainen's picture

Nations of Theah volume 2 gave suggestion I did not like. It would be totally against 2nd edition mentality that Sanderis sorcerer loses both Sorcery and important part of themselves without gaining anything when they get the full name of Deva. Okay, they can kill the deva, but gain nothing out of it. Noble sacrifice, bug gamingwise totally insane, as Sanderis hero fulfilling his quest of killing the Dieva would become totally cripled after doing so, killling lots of advantages in process.

Rossbert
Rossbert's picture

I don't know if I agree.

Dramatic heroic sacrifice seems right in the world's themes for 7th Sea.  While I see what you mean mechanically, (pay 19 XP to unlock the level to defeat the boss) that it seems to be just a loss in relation to other players, I feel that is part of the point.

In addition since it is supposed to be a campaign ending event they did not give much thought to party balance after it, especially since many Dieva powers are basically that guy/place/thing stop existing.

It is definitely an important part of session 0 to discuss if the group wants destroying a physical God to be the focus of the game however.

Plus you always have rule zero if you want less sacrifice involved.