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Bonhumm
Bonhumm's picture
Questions about the combat exemple in core book
question

I won't copy paste it all since it would take a lot of place but my questions are about the Action Sequence Exemple in page 183+ of the Core Book.

 

The Villain has five Raises.

 

At Raise #6, a character put pressure on the Villain, the GM describes the Villain reaction as: 'She gives you the evil eye and
draws her pistol, calling on a few of her Brutes to help her out.
'

Since the Villain is doing an actual action (calling Brutes to her help) I would consider that an Action but this does not seems to be the case because at Raise #5 she gets to do an Action again. Do this makes sense?

 

Also: About the villain's Action at Raise #5, the GM describes the actions as: 'She’ll spend her Raise and level her pistol at the mouthy Vesten.... She spends a Raise and pulls the trigger. Brand, you take 1 Wound, and 1 Dramatic Wound from being shot.'
 

So, that would mean that the Villain burned TWO Raises, 1 to fire the gun (the Action itself) and 1 Raise to add the 'regular' wound. She should be therefore down to 3 Raises.

 

But, in the exemple, when they reaches Raise #4 the Villain gets an action again (playing first since she's the Villain).

 

Am I missing something here or did they just skip on proofreading?

 

Thank you again for any imput from you wise ones.

 

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BluSponge
BluSponge's picture

1 raise to pull a gun.

1 raise to shoot the mouthy Vesten. This does 1 wound + 1 dramatic wound. No second raise required.

Calling out for your brutes to assist you shouldn't cost a Raise if that's all you are doing.

IIRC Pressure just forces the hero to do what you want or they have to spend an extra raise. So since the mouthy Vesten is provoking her and she obliges him with a bullet, no tax.

So I think the example is pretty tight. I'm not seeing a problem with it anyway.

Bonhumm
Bonhumm's picture

But like you said:  

 

1 raise to pull a gun.

1 raise to shoot the mouthy Vesten. This does 1 wound + 1 dramatic wound. No second raise required.

 

That's a total of 2 Raises.

- She started with 5 Raises.

- Used 2 Raises.

- Still gets an Action at Raise #4.

Shouldn't her next action be at Raise #3?

Harliquinn Whit...
Harliquinn Whiteshadow's picture

There is no Raise to draw a weapon, pistol or otherwise. The example is spending only 1 raise, but the GM is just reiterating the Raise expenditure, since the player interrupted the action with witty repartee in the example:

GM: Bustillo sneers at Brand. “I’ve come too far to be stopped by the likes of you! You’ll have that gem over my dead body!” She’ll spend her Raise and level her pistol at the mouthy Vesten. 

Brand: Maybe I didn’t think this through... 

GM: She spends a Raise (This is the same Raise just restated) and pulls the trigger. Brand, you take 1 Wound, and 1 Dramatic Wound from being shot. 

John

Bonhumm
Bonhumm's picture

I'm not saying she's spending a Raise to draw the pistol.

 

But, unless I'm mistaked shes doing 2 things:

 

- She fire the gun. This cost ONE Raise and create the DRAMATIC wound, nothing more

- She spend ANOTHER Raise to add a 'regular' wound to the damage.

 

Thefore: 2 Raises have been spent. No?

 

BluSponge
BluSponge's picture

No.

Firing a pistol would do 1 wound and 1 dramatic wound.  See Core Rules, pg 180:

Anyone shot by a firearm by a Hero or Villain takes 1 Dramatic Wound in addition to all other normal effects from the attack. If you shoot another character with a firearm using 2 Raises, that character takes 2 Wounds and 1 Dramatic Wound. The target cannot use Raises to negate the Dramatic Wound from a firearm; he might be able to minimize the damage, but he can’t dodge a bullet. 

Bonhumm
Bonhumm's picture

Ok, I think I get it now.

 

This would also pretty much answer my question in the other thread (the duelist one) about melee damage. Just doing the melee attack by itself DOES make 1 'regular' wound and any further Raise adds to this.

 

Thank you, you managed to go through my thick skull, a great feat!

Harliquinn Whit...
Harliquinn Whiteshadow's picture

Yes to the Effect, but that's not really how it works. "Attacking" does not cause any automatic Wounds (Your weapon doesn't have a damage rating of 1 Wound). Your Action is to "Wound" your opponent. You can Wound your opponent using almost any skill you want, not just Weaponry. For instance, I could unleash a scathing tirade against my opponent's lineage and upbringing, dealing 3 Wounds, just as easily as I could deal those 3 Wounds by flourishing with my rapier and sliding it between his ribs.

It's a small 'technicality' but an important one. You aren't spending your Raise to 'attack' and because you're using a weapon you deal 1 Wound with an attack. You are spending your X Raises to deal X Wounds and how you deal those wounds is pure description on your part (usually based upon your Approach for the round)

John

Bonhumm
Bonhumm's picture

Ok so I think I'm getting it.

 

Could you confirm me that the following is correct?

--------------

An ACTION (something that uses a Raise) is ONLY when an activity is covered by a Skill (page 147 of the Core Book).

 

Examples:

 

1- I discuss with someone: Just chatting? No skill so no Raise

 

2- I discuss with someone with the intent of convincing him to do something specific: Thats the 'Convince' skill thus uses a Raise

 

3- I slap someone on the face (not trying to do a wound but rather as a part of a conversation): Still just chatting so no Raise.

 

4- I slap someone on the face with the intent of breaking his nose: Thats the 'Brawl' skill thus uses a Raise. Since the action itself is not the slap but the 'intent to do damage' I do 1 wound to my target. I could increase the amount of wounds by burning more Raises on a 1:1 ratio.

 

5- I run through a long corridor to get to a door: it's just 'walking' so no Raise.

 

6- I run through a long corridor with most of the floor on fire: That's a Risk, which therefore will require a Skill to overcome, so takes a Raise.

 

7- I pull my gun out: Not a Raise

 

8- I pull my gun out in a extravagent manner, intending to impress the people around me: That's the 'Perfrom' skill thus a Raise.

 

9- I shoot my gun in the air as a signal for my allies to go into action: Not a Raise

 

10- I shoot my gun at someone/something with the intent of doing damage: That's the 'Aim' skill thus uses a Raise. Since the action itself is not the attack but the 'intent to do damage' I do 1 wound to my target (+ 1 Dramatic wound because it's a gun). I could increase the amount of (regular) wounds by burning more Raises on a 1:1 ratio.

 

Also: since there is no contest mechanics: As long as I have the require Raise to do those actions: those actions WILL be successful (as long as judged 'possible' by the GM) so no 'success roll' is required, ever.

 

 

I'm I getting this right?

 

Thank you again

Harliquinn Whit...
Harliquinn Whiteshadow's picture

First, I love your examples and I too may incorporate them into some examples for players...

One addition to your statement I think is needed in order to be fully applicable:

An ACTION (something that uses a Raise) is ONLY when an activity is covered by a Skill (page 147 of the Core Book) or has a meaningful Narrative affect on the current scene.

The reason for the second is that you need to Spend raises to take advantage of opportunities (e.g. Grabbing a disarmed weapon away from a bad guy), to avoid Consequences (e.g. Jump out of the way of the falling rock), and to affect the scene even if no skill roll is needed.

That said, a few of them walk the gray line depending upon the 'Narrative affect' of the Action.

#5: If running down the corridor puts the hero in a new 'area' for the Scene or lets them avoid a Consequence (people shooting at her in the other room) then it would still require a Raise even if no Skill is associated.

#8: You'd only need to use the Raise if your intent with the impressing of people is to cause them to take Wounds, Pressure them, or otherwise impact the scene in some meaningful way.

#9: Again if it's just a trigger, no Raise, but if your plan is to give your allies some Bonus due to an Advantage, Background, etc. then that would require a Raise.

----

There is a Contested Mechanic: Whoever spends the most Raises gets their 'intent' and the other people do not. 

The book has an example on this on page 179 (I wish it was called out as "Contested Actions" but it's not)

Sometimes two Heroes, or a Hero and a Villain, will want the same thing, or they will each have an Action that runs counter to the other. Whoever spends the most on their Action gets it, to the exclusion of all others. However, Raises spent to overcome the Risk must be spent in a single Action—you can’t spend 1 Raise to make your Action, then decide to spend a second one to reinforce it later. It’s all or nothing.

Joachim Deneuve...
Joachim Deneuve du Surlign's picture

Yes you are: and well enough that I might be tempted to nick the examples for showing to other GMs and Players.

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