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NeoTanuki
NeoTanuki's picture
Question about Heavy vs. Fencing Weapons
dueling, action sequence

So while in most cases, I've been able to manage pretty well with the 7th Sea 2e rules, and handwave or improvise most things that are confusing or ambiguous for me, but there's one area I am still very confused about: Weapon categories, specifically what makes the difference between a Heavy Weapon versus a Fencing Weapon in game mechanics (if there is a difference!). If anyone has any insight that can help answer these questions, I'd certainly appreciate it:

1. Has anyone found a specific reference in the core rule book that describes a mechanical difference between wielding a Heavy Weapon and a Fencing Weapon? I remember in the Quickstart scenario, it was mentioned that players should roll Brawn+Weaponry if using a Heavy Weapon, and Finesse+Weaponry if using a Fencing Weapon...but I can't seem to find any similar rule in the official published core book. I'm totally OK house ruling that Heavy Weapons use Brawn and Fencing Weapons use Finesse, but  if anyone has found a specific mention of this in the core rulebook, could you point me to a page number, please?

2. To make matters more confusing, cutlasses seem to be listed as both Heavy and Fencing Weapons in different parts of the rulebook! Under the Ambrogia dueling style description, a cutlass is described as a Fencing Weapon. But under the Mireli style description, it's described as a Heavy Weapon. But cutlasses are also mentioned as Fencing Weapons under the Fencer Advantage! Wait, what? Does this mean that one of these references is a typo, or is a cutlass treated as a different type of weapon depending on the dueling style being used?

3. My last area of uncertainty is the Sabat Dueling school. The weapon required for the Sabat Gambit is described as "a Heavy Weapon held in one hand, such as a curved cavalry saber." OK, no problem there, though I personally tend to think of sabers as fencing weapons. But...then I recalled that Sabat Gambit calculates Wound damage using Finesse+Weaponry+Raises spent...and to me Finesse seems to imply use of a Fencing Weapon. Anyone willing to lend a hand clearing this up? Again, I'm OK with players using Brawn+Weaponry when using Sabat style, and using Finesse+Weaponry+Raises for calculating the special maneuver's Wounds if that is how the style is intended, but it just seems a bit weird. Is it possible labeling the saber as a "Heavy Weapon" was a typo?

I've emailed the design team about these questions at the new official 7th Sea site, but have not heard back yet from them. If I receive a reply, I'll share it here but would value feedback from other GMs and players, as weapons categories are getting a bit confusing for me. 

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Salamanca
Salamanca's picture
A weapon is a weapon. No differences mechanically. The Sarmatia school uses what it uses because they are all obsessed with sabers. The only need to specify is in the use of the various advantages.
NeoTanuki
NeoTanuki's picture

Ok, let me pose a hypothetical situation then: 

Let's say one of my players wants to create an Ussuran duelist who uses the Mireli style. Mireli's special maneuver requires the use of one or two Heavy Weapons. Cutlasses are given as an example of a Heavy Weapon that can be used to perform the Mireli style's special maneuver.  

Is it Ok for me as GM to allow the player to roll Finesse+Weaponry when using Mireli, as opposed to Brawn+Weaponry? The reason I ask is that to me, the flavor text for Mireli (dancing, acrobatic style created by performers) seems better reflected by a Finesse role. But a Heavy Weapon suggests Brawn. If it's GM's choice, great, but I wasn't sure if the rulebook specifies this or not-I couldn't find anything. 

My initial call would be just to go ahead and let the player use Finesse. But I read the Quickstart Scenario AFTER I got the core rules, so it threw me into a bit of confusion when the Quickstart mentioned "Brawn is used for Heavy Weapons, Finesse for Fencing Weapons" and I wasn't sure if this still applies or not.

Harliquinn Whit...
Harliquinn Whiteshadow's picture

It usually depends on how it's described. if the player describes their character dancing through the enemies like a wind, then Finesse. If they describe it as rushing forward and brining their sword down hard, then Brawn.

Salamanca
Salamanca's picture
It is allowable to let him use Panache and Weaponry if it fits the description. I typed up descriptions in another thread but the short answer is that it can and should change every round if the player is creative in use. This let's them grab that flair advantage more often.
NeoTanuki
NeoTanuki's picture
Thanks. Your feedback supports my initial (and preferred) take on the issue, but the ambiguity of the language in the dueling section had me second-guessing myself on later reads. I like the rules set very much but there are a few places I wish the writing was just a bit clearer.
Salamanca
Salamanca's picture
We all agree on that, my friend.
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