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Ben L
Ben L's picture
Interested in 7th Sea! :)
New!

 

Howdy! I have to begin by admitting that I have roleplayed since Star Frontiers but haven't looked at 7th Sea, until now. Yes, I am ashamed... :) So, I had a few questions! 

1) How well-polished is the game? Is it in need of an errata? 

2) I noticed the Criminal background has "Camaraderie", which I found odd. I would imagine "I got it!" would make more sense as criminals aren't known for their camaraderie. 

That's it for now and thank you! 

 

 

 

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Joachim Deneuve...
Joachim Deneuve du Surlign's picture

1)  You'll find whole threads on this board discussing that.  Some people think that it is too vague describing things in places; other people believe that the vagueness is deliberate, since it's all about telling a story and the GM can fill things in as required by their table; JW says it's exactly how he wants it.

2)  Remember, virtually every background should be preceded with "Heroic" or "Swashbuckling".  So the Camaraderie is that of Robin Hood and his merry men,Oliver and The Artful Dodger or the like.

Ben L
Ben L's picture

That's great! I love empty spaces as long as there is fertile ground for our stories. If this is the case, it's all good.

And duh on me. I'm coming from Blades in the Dark so I'm not in the "criminal hero" mindset. :)

Thank you so much! 

Donovan Morningfire
Donovan Morningfire's picture

As for how "well-polished" the game actually is, that is indeed a matter of personal opinion.  I personally think it's very well-polished, but could have used a bit more clarification in some areas, while others have remarked that it feels like a very rough 'beta' and that JWP shouldn't have rushed the book out in order to make a GenCon 2016 release.  The rules regarding Duelists and the disparity in combat prowess between Duelists and non-Duelists seems to bear the brunt of this.

There's no official errata as of yet, though Michael Curry (line editor) did say that one was in the works.  How much actual errata is needed is again a matter of opinion, though it seems most of said errata would constitute more clarifications than actual updates to the existing rules.  There was talk over on the 7th Sea reddit of there being one sometime around spring or early summer, but with how aggressive their planned release schedule is, it may still be a while yet before we see the errata.

As for the Criminal Background and the Camaraderie Advantage, that struck me as odd too, especially if one is playing a Hero that's comeing from a shady past and is now trying to be a good/better person (i.e. a Hero) than they were before.  I just ultimately rolled with it, rationalizing it as the Hero using the Advantage to encourage their allies to be better, not unlike Gurren Lagaan's Kamina's spiel of "don't believe in the you that doesn't believe in yourself!  Believe in the me that believes in you, and believe in the you that believes in me!" (though maybe using phrasing that isn't quite so cheesy).  But Joachim's reasoning certainly works too.

Dono's Gaming & Etc Blog
http://jedimorningfire.blogspot.com/

Antti Kautiainen
Antti Kautiainen's picture

Camaredie suits really well to the Hero, as he has "buddies" he can use if needed. The fact he is acting like a good guy does not mean his former buddies think he has becomen a good guy. I bet they would rather assume it is just another connievery by him. Criminals are really used to help each other. Not all criminals, but members of their gang.

In real life too, the old criminal past tend to walk in when you do not expect, it. Or it might give you an advantage and help even without doing anything criminal. F. ex. Hell's Angels, are very social and very well networked people. If you stop coming, all is fine as long you do not betray your former peers.

Ben L
Ben L's picture

Got it yesterday and will certainly give it a spin! The vitriol I've seen over the system was off putting but I sailed past it. ;) Not sure how scary duelists are yet but I have an amazing group of players so I'm not super-worried about balance. Thanks a bunch for the replies. 

Donovan Morningfire
Donovan Morningfire's picture

From what I've heard, it seems the main complaint with Duelists is that they have a very real tendency of tearing their way through Brute Squads, with the root of that issue being GMs that are operating under the false presumption that a Brute Squad in this system is supposed to wear a party of Heroes down the way a monster groups in D&D or similar games would wear down a party of PCs.

Once you accept that Brute Squads were never meant to be a serious threat to the Heroes, Duelist or otherwise, and are ultimately there to make the Heroes look cool or at best be a minor speedbump while the Heroes deal with the real challenge, whatever that may be.

Dono's Gaming & Etc Blog
http://jedimorningfire.blogspot.com/

BluSponge
BluSponge's picture

From what I've heard, it seems the main complaint with Duelists is that they have a very real tendency of tearing their way through Brute Squads, with the root of that issue being GMs that are operating under the false presumption that a Brute Squad in this system is supposed to wear a party of Heroes down the way a monster groups in D&D or similar games would wear down a party of PCs.

That's certainly one issue.  The other issue people constantly bring up is that you have one class of swashbuckling combatant doing 1 wound at a time and another class doing 3+ Wounds at a time.  So right now there isn't pairity between say, a Vodacce knife fighter, a Inish pugilist, an Avalon bowman, and a Duelist of any flavor.  So the first three feel left out as the duelist just mops the floor with everything (except the villain).  And I think that's a valid argument.  I mean, I'm completely cool with the Duelist being the alpha dog when it comes to combat, but I don't like the idea of them outclassing everyone by a mile.  I want my non-traditional combatants to feel some of that swashbuckling glow.  This is, in my mind, the biggest appeal of the Whirl homebrew maneuver – not because it makes brutes a threat but because it gives everyone a brighter spotlight when it comes to fighting alongside a duelist.

Slowly, these things are being taken care of with Advantages, but you can see where people feel its an issue baked into the game.  I just want to mention this because not ALL the issues with Duelists have to do with uber-brute syndrome.

(One thing I realize no one has ever discussed is what if you drop the Slash and Parry maneuvers completely.  So a duelist "slash" would do 1 Wound just like everyone else.  That would still leave them with Lunge and Riposte as "super moves".  Anyway, that's a topic for a different thread.)

Donovan Morningfire
Donovan Morningfire's picture

Bear in mind that in contrast to the Vodacce knife fighter, the Inish pugilist, and the Avalon bowman, the Duelist made a substantial investment in terms of available Advantages in order to be that awesome with a blade, be it choosing the Duelist Background or especially if they bought the Duelist Academy Advantage with their 5 free Advantage points at character generation.  If a Hero is spending 1/3rd of their total available Advantage points on a single Advantage, then it better be able to let the PC do some awesome stuff in the arena to which that Advantage applies.  And in any scene that doesn't really permit for combat, that's 5 points that isn't doing anything to help the Hero overcome the challenge set forth in the scene.

Dono's Gaming & Etc Blog
http://jedimorningfire.blogspot.com/

BluSponge
BluSponge's picture

Oh!  No doubt!  Like I said, I'm perfectly fine with duelists being the alpha dog in a fight.  But I don't want that at the expense of everyone else.  I'd be fine if all three of those other styles required an investment in Advantages to do it.  But last I looked, there isn't much for anyone who isn't a duelist.  Pugilists are starting to get some love, but the other two are still waiting for some spotlight time.

Ben L
Ben L's picture

What do you mean by pugilists are starting to get some love? 

BluSponge
BluSponge's picture

I mean that the sourcebooks are starting to dribble out some cool Advatages for pugilists, in addition to Bar Fighter and Boxer in the core.

You have...

  • Anything Can Be A Weapon if you Hold it Right (req. Bar Fighter)
  • Haymaker (req. Boxer)
  • Wrecking Ball (Knack)
  • Body Blow (Knack)

Those all come from the Nations of Theah books.

Ben L
Ben L's picture

Sounds awesome. I like the setting a lot of hope to dive into it as time goes on.

Heng benjamin
Heng benjamin's picture
I would also add that if you ever go really high level (skills at 5), the system can be really exhausting to GM: Even with no bonus dice from any sources and a trait at 2, it will still amount to an average 4 raises. With 4 players, keeping things interesting with so many raises/round is really hard. I made some bad calls with experience and it's really ruining the experience for me, where I have a lot of fun with my other group (which only gained one 2 point advantage vs two 5 and two 4 for the no-more-fun party). Also I would add that the system relies a lot on the GM (as opposed to the play to see what happens philosophy from AW you also find in BitD). It's a great game otherwise and really nice for new players. Edit: I cannot unplussed myself, sorry for the misclick.
Ben L
Ben L's picture

Thank you, everyone. I'm eager to get to playing!

Donovan Morningfire
Donovan Morningfire's picture

Glad we could be of some help.  Hope you have just as much fun I and those folks that I've run the game for have had.

Dono's Gaming & Etc Blog
http://jedimorningfire.blogspot.com/

Ben L
Ben L's picture

Thanks! After being able to read some, I have a few potentially silly questions:

1) From page 179. "For example, the GM could say,“You need to get off this burning ship before the powder room explodes. And the powder room will explode at 2 Raises and everyone takes 5 Wounds.” That means, as soon as all of the Heroes have fewer than 2 Raises, the powder room explodes and everyone takes 5 Wounds."

Does this means the powder explodes when the Heroes have 1 Raise left? I ask because the next paragraph says, "Another example could be a priceless necklace slipping across an angled roof. If the Heroes don’t grab it by Raise 3, it falls off into the night, down onto the city streets, into the fire, or into the ocean." In that example the Consequence occured on the Raise, not at a lower number.

2) Can you raise Traits only twice ever or twice per Trait? 

Thanks! 

 

 

Bonhumm
Bonhumm's picture

1- It's means that once everyone (including villains) have LESS than 2 Raises left, it will go boom.

2- Page 160 states:

You can increase your Trait Ranks, but to a
limit. You may only have up to 15 total Ranks
of Traits
. You can move Ranks around, but
you can never have more than 15 total. Also,
no Trait may be above Rank 5, or below

Rank 2.

 

Therefore, since we begin with 13 total Ranks (5 Traits at 2 + 1 from Nation bonus + 2 starting bonus) this would mean that, indeed, you can only increase your Traits by 2 points for a maximum total of 15.

 

I haven't even noticed that before you asking. Man, second edition is really turning us into clones.
 

Ben L
Ben L's picture

So the GM chooses if a Timed Consequence happens on or after a Raise? I'm just asking because the two examples of Timed Consequences were different. 

Page 160 under "Rewarding the Journey", "Traits": "Traits require five Steps to increase by 1 Rank, but this can only be done twice. See the sidebar for more details." 

Is that twice ever regardless of Trait or per Trait? Or am I derping this? :) 

 

 

Bonhumm
Bonhumm's picture

Page 179 says:

the GM could say, “You need to get off
this burning ship before the powder room explodes.
And the powder room will explode at 2 Raises and
everyone takes 5 Wounds.” That means, as soon as all
of the Heroes have fewer than 2 Raises
, the powder
room explodes and everyone takes 5 Wounds.

 

 

Thus, any event declared to happen at Raise X can be overcome up to and including Raise X. So, if an explosion is set to happen at Raise 2, you can still act DURING Raise 2 to avoid it.

 

As for the Trait: Since the (clearly defined) maximum points you can have in all Traits is 15 AND that we begin (at character creation) at 13, that would mean we can increase Traits for a total of 2 times ever (regardless).

Ben L
Ben L's picture

See? I knew I was derping it. :) Thanks! 

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