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Cthulhu Netobvious
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Newbies and First Timers
To all new players and first timers to the world of the 7th Sea Roleplaying Game, this is the place you can ask your questions. We encourage the more experienced Game Masters and Players will find the time to answer and welcome you to this wonderful game.
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TAJ-07: Technopriest And Justicar Of 7thSea2e

Bradley
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Aliens have been mentioned. What are the aliens? Are they space faring aliens? Is there a mother ship? Why are they interested in Terra?
James Stephens
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The Syrneth is a name for several "peoples" that came before the people that populate Theah who only left artifacts for the "modern" people to find.  At first it was portrayed as a lost civilization piece in many of the books but later on began to take on a more science fiction bent and the Syrneth were treated like several alien races along with the Sidhe and other creatures that were on Theah at the time.   Eventually even the Sorcery bloodlines became this big alien conspiracy that tended to spoil some of the setting for a lot of people.

As the Syrneth is i believe staying but taking on a more mystical bent, time will tell as to how it is handled in the new edition.

 

Richard Cooper
Richard Cooper's picture

+1 To what James said, but I'll add that John Wick has stated (in the KS comments, somewhere) that there will be no aliens in the new edition. Given there will still be Syrenth and Sidgh, that suggests the backstory of those 'ancients' factions will shift back to what it was earlier in first edition, while John still had his hand on the rudder.

Morgan Wolfe
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John also said there "never were" aliens, so I don't think he ever considered them as such. I guess it partly depends on how one defines "aliens" -- someone from another planet, from another dimension, from another time (are the Silurians in Doctor Who "aliens"?), from another nation...

Morgan Wolfe
aka Capt. Doña Sir Kestrel of Avalon http://silver-gateway.com/7sea/

Tilly Bomas
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Spoilers
Cthulhu Netobvious
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Thanks for the insights, Tilly Bomas. Newbies should not see your spoilers, so my apologies for hiding them. We have a GM-only that will require special access for discussions that may includes spoilers.

TAJ-07: Technopriest And Justicar Of 7thSea2e

Tilly Bomas
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It's alright.  Just answering the question asked in the vaguest way possible while still providing the information.  

Bradley
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There is an option to hide some words on other forums. It is sometimes listed as spoiler. On one site it is also used to hide walls of texts to make the page more pleasing to look at. That might be a feature to look at implementing if you can.
Kevin Krupp
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Can we be careful with the GM Spoilers folks? The title of this thread is "Newbies and First Timers" - most of this isn't exactly the stuff a brand new player should have any clue about. I know the question was asked, but we can keep it vaguer or create a new thread for GMs and link to it. Rev's had a good structure for addressing stuff like that.

True Iskander
True Iskander's picture

Another question: The QS didn't seem to give a definitive answer on character Disadvantages. Will there be any sort of negative character traits? I've always found those fun for building unique characters.

Rob Justice
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Nope. No Disadvantages. Except for Hubris. And Corruption.

Joachim Deneuve...
Joachim Deneuve du Surlign's picture

Corruption?  Oh, you are a tease.  Downside of Sorcery?

Salamanca
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The "Alien" aspects of certain backstory groups also grew greater when the later wave of writers shifted them into that mode from the very brief write ups we had seen in the core book.  Some of it came from the artifacts that were included that had a very sci-fi feel. 

This system can function very well without them being present or using the tech they produced.  I have managed to ignore almost all of it since the beginning and had a very good time without it. 

But this is very much the argument that science we don't understand is termed "magic".  Rob and John may call them Demons, Sidhe or Syrneth but what they are is a non-human influence. 

KC Krupp
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First of all: Sal! It's really good to see you and some of the other Rev's folks coming out of the wordwork.

The funny thing about the "alien" aspects is, it really wasn't that big a deal when it was sequestered to just one book. IMO the problem is it started to spread to the point that it was impossible to get through any of the metaplot without it sitting there and starring you in the face, and the writers had kind of written themselves into an inevitable corner. Either way, I agree, you could play 7th Sea for decades if you wanted to and never even go near any of that.

True Iskander
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Was 1e well designed for solo or small group play? Some RPG systems are pretty tough on groups unless there are a fair number of characters filling different roles.
Morgan Wolfe
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My husband ran me as the only PC for years -- long enough to bring my character up from freshly-rolled noob to 150 rep :-). So, I'd say yeah.

The new system, we're not so sure, but if I know him he'll find a way.

Morgan Wolfe
aka Capt. Doña Sir Kestrel of Avalon http://silver-gateway.com/7sea/

Salamanca
Salamanca's picture
As long as the GM is prepared for it, you can run it for a single player. 1st Ed was open for skill selection so a player can take as many as they can afford. I have a regular player that makes a point of doing that. Your biggest hassle in the small group play is language barriers. I usually require players to spend on the local language for the campaign. The most I have seated for tabletop play was 15 in one session. At that scale the main goal is to spread the spotlight and keep combats short to avoid excess dice rolling.
Morgan Wolfe
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We got around the languages that my Avalon captain who lived in Castile for years hadn't picked up by having some of the NPCs in her crew knowing other languages (in varying degrees -- one guy knew a little Crescent, and no one knew any of the Cathayan languages). But between everyone in the motley crew, someone was fluent in knew every major Thean language, and several were conversant with two or three.

Morgan Wolfe
aka Capt. Doña Sir Kestrel of Avalon http://silver-gateway.com/7sea/

Tilly Bomas
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Oh man, Language barriers... Playing a Cathayan that only knows 1 language from Thea fluently, and a pidgeon of most the other major ones... THAT was a good time.  I learned Kanuben before I finished getting the xp for Montaign... 

 

 

True Iskander
True Iskander's picture
I'm thinking this might have been answered in a 1e sourcebook, but I'm curious: Has JW explained why he picked the year 1668 for the game's start year? I've been looking through invention and historical timelines to see what was going on in the real 1668.
Bradley
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It is a very curvy number. Some guys just like curvy things.

Salamanca
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It fits into the era they were looking to emulate. Beyond that, it flows well off the tongue? No idea for certain. But it is just after the fire of London that lead the era to be called "Restoration". (The fire and the sudden upswing in the sciences restoring what was " lost" knowledge). It's probably less about what happened in that year specific and more what happened in the handful of years before and after. Setting it as a good average point to kick things off.
True Iskander
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Good to know. I'm sort of glad its not tied to anything specific. Makes it easier to juggle which tech is available in my Theah.
Salamanca
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By the by, it's a breeze to Google up a map of London from just after the fire. It has a sizable gap right in the middle of it to fill with your own buildings. Might be the only map from outside 7th sea I ever used in the game.
Morgan Wolfe
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I always suspected it was because the year was prominently displayed at the beginning of Cutthroat Island. laugh

Morgan Wolfe
aka Capt. Doña Sir Kestrel of Avalon http://silver-gateway.com/7sea/

Conn Eremon
Conn Eremon's picture

New to 7th Sea and DMing, though I have yet to organize a game. Kickstarter really intrigued me, so I backed it and have only just gotten my friends introduced.

Does anyone have general advice for someone jumping off of a D&D/FFG system for the first time, and taking the leap from player to DM? Just the fact that there are no equipment lists threw me off! But I really like the world and narrative system, so I'll get the hang of it.

Also: Is it 1668, or 1968? One of the maps in the printed book says 1968. Page 21.

New to 7th Sea and DMing. Moderate experience with D&D 4/5e and FFG 40k line.

Salamanca
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It's 1668. That date is centered in the Restoration era following the real world great fire of London. It really was a time that was on the cusp of some great advancements. My best advice is to keep in mind it's a system of story not combat. Sure we have sword fights but they are a side effect of the adventure. AND ASK QUESTIONS when in doubt. Many of is have been with the setting since '99. We are here to help.
Conn Eremon
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Thanks Salamanca. Looks like it was a typo. I had dismissed that originally because it's actually spelled out "nineteen," and just figured our Years of the Lord don't completely match up with 7th Sea's Years of the Truth. But mistakes happen, no biggie.

I'll be sure to use you guys as a resource, especially as I can't find any other online community for the 2nd edition. I'd really like some premade adventures to get a feel, but aside from the quickstart there are none right now. I know 1st edition has some, and through the Kickstarter I have access to the lot. You guys have actually played them though, so do you think they can be easily converted for use in 2e?

My greatest interests lie in the political situation in the Glamour Isles and the exploration/colonization of the New World, if that helps. The Syrneth ruins too, kind of remind me of the Ayleid/Dwemer ruins of Elder Scrolls.

New to 7th Sea and DMing. Moderate experience with D&D 4/5e and FFG 40k line.

Salamanca
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I think that if you just look at the plotlines, you could build off the first Ed adventures. The problem is that just enough storyline has changed that most of them will not fit the official background established. (Case in poont:the Erebus cross trilogy that started with the gm screen focuses on the war between castille and Montaigne, the Montaigne military retreat from ussura, A Heilgrund plot that might still be in play, and a take on the syrneth that possibly isn't). The Freiburg set contains an even mix of stuff that is still workable and plots that do not fit the campaign world but the key plot involves a Dracheneisen mine which is invalid.
Conn Eremon
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Hm, so there's been a decent amount of plot progression and setting retcons, with the Freiburg set having side elements that could be worked with. Sort of what I expected from what I've seen do far. Perhaps I'll do some heavy edit work, find a more basic adventure and rename/rework everything so that it's a generic, timeless plot until I get confidence to break out into my own work or Wick releases some more adventures.

New to 7th Sea and DMing. Moderate experience with D&D 4/5e and FFG 40k line.

Salamanca
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The adventures hold up but the new edition reset the world. Certain nations are no longer at war, certain world leaders have changed, some nations no longer share borders. But there are great ideas in the old edition stuff. There will be material from the fans as soon as they open the page on drive thru for content.
Potens Aquila
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Hello Heroes,

[This is my first time posting here, so if there's a correct way to post things, please let me know.] Beyond that, I had posted a question on the kickstarter unaware of these 7S 2e forums, and I would like possibly some more thoughts on it. The question is about slavery existing in 7th Sea 2e. From what I can tell and have been able to find out about 7th Sea is that the setting is a lot more light-hearted game. With gender equality being more of a thing and possibly the friendliness between countries is a lot stronger, but whether slavery exists or not, I have been told that only villains would be behind such evil, not necessarily any one country being behind it, which is fine.

Haha, so after all that would it be okay if, i guess another secret organization was created, almost like an underground villain orginazation that would be the one's behind such evil acts like slavery, corrupt deals, torture, negative influence on the people, etc? A few reasons why I'm asking is because, I wanted to know if this would go against the intended idea of 7th Sea and if homebrewing another secret group would unbalance the game in some way?

 

Thank you very much for your help,

- Potens

Cthulhu Netobvious
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@PotensAquila, welcome to these forums. 

7th Sea 2e is relatiely rules light as a game (no weapons tables, no long lists of consequences for every conceivable action, etc).

Plus, one of the design goals was for Heroes to never fail just based on dice rolls unless the Players want their Heroes to fail. 

However, for various reasons, the desginers changed this rule with regards to morality and tried to enforce a system to discourage Players dabbling in the darker aspects of the human experience. And yet, the rules will not break if the GM and Players agree that deaths of "bad guys" are Corruption free.devil

So a simple rule of thumb is this:

Ask players at your game table if they will be comfortable running a game with more mature and less pleasant themes included?
If the answer is a resounding "Hell no", then do not write adventures that make your players uncomforable.

In my own 7th Sea games, Brute Squads die left, right and center and the game mechanics did not break with that minor tweak. 

TAJ-07: Technopriest And Justicar Of 7thSea2e

Potens Aquila
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Thanks, that's very helpful. I haven't read through all of 2e , but is there a process for making a villains secret organization? Or would you suggest a better way to go about it? - Potens
Salamanca
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The old version had much of the same restriction on morally wrong behaviors, it just didn't announce it to the public. ( The freelancers were certainly set on a path of what we can and cannot do in the setting). That said, there is nothing about adding new secret societies to the game that would unbalance anything, ever. The Rye Grin and Adventurers Society of Luthon were both home campaign material before they were published. The only thing you want to avoid is creating so many the players are overwhelmed. As for a villain society that is behind the worst things imaginable (should you and the players want to deal with that. And I get a group wanting to be heroes that end this sort of thing) you don't need to make one. NOM or Novus Ordum Mundi, was designed to handle this. The description may not spell it out but the cabal of 13 or so members are the most adept villains in the game and certainly capable of masterminding international horrors like slavery.
Cthulhu Netobvious
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@Salamanca, as an experienced GM who understand the mechanics, would it be accurate to say that if the "bad guy mooks" are qualified by the GM as Corruption-free kills, this tweak does not destroy the rest of the Corruption mechanics applied to innocent denizens of Theah or even the important recurring villains?

TAJ-07: Technopriest And Justicar Of 7thSea2e

Potens Aquila
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@Salamanca, Thank you very much.

​I'm going to read up on the NOM and if I have any questions, I would surely come back. Thank you again.

- Potens

Salamanca
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If a GM really to have the players kill the brutes, they can on a case by case basis rule a fight to be "non corrupting" and I think it would be fine. But it should be an exception and not a practice. My reasoning on this could fill pages, here is the short answers. 1- Dumas does have them killing in a few scenes but most of that is "war" or a situation where the villain will not accept quarter. But there are even more scenes where the brutes take a wound and are out of the fight. Maybe they die later maybe they live to 80. The point is that the hero beat them and they moved on to a viable target knowing the defeated brute would have enough honor to not get back up and re-engage because that is how things were done. Corruption is as much about winning the fight by unsavory means as it is about actually killing. Do as mucj as you need to win and it's seen as a fair fight even if the loser has a sucking chest wound and needs carried to a surgeon gets an infection and dies months later. Overwhelm him with a flurry of feints, cut his suspenders and push him into the lake, same result. You have proven the better swordsman today and the brute is too embarrassed to continue. But defeat every opponent by stabbingbtyembthrough the heart and whispers start about you being a butcher. Strangers avoid you and ministers denounce what you do. People stop fighting fair with you and that combines to weigh on your conscience. Killing is what criminals and highwaymen do. Not heroes. The hero should be looking for the better path even if it is harder. But sometimes, every other route is blocked and to save a life you have to take one. If the hero has exhausted their other options and the situation calls for it, sometimes a bad man just needs killing. Even Superman has fallen to that point a couple times. And situationally that may or may not come with corruption. Use your judgement in this and allatters I'm he game. A corruption point is not an absolute punishment, it's a gateway to a new story for redemption. If a player really wants to kill an NPC and take that storyline on, that is a good thing for your game.
Cthulhu Netobvious
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@Salamanca, thank you for your insights. I agree that heroes would prefer to fight "duels" on even footing with the opponents, but not every single fight is a duel. And the fact that a heoric swordsman is so much better than the brutes already creates an unfair advantage in the classical sense. A dashing hero may mock his inferiors, but today we call that "bullying" or punching down. 

Also, we are all adults and intelligent enough to evaluate that mechanically (something I already stated in a previous comment), the Corruption mechanics do NOT break down if several nameless brutes are killed. The Corruption mechanics can be kept to curtail wanton death of important NPCs and Villains to enhance story telling. The Corruption mechanics are not required for EVERY single unnamed brute (or Star Trek equivalent "Red Shirt") in the game world.

I have run several entertaining 7th Sea sessions by applying the Corruption mechanics only for important characters.enlightened

And unless this is a Disney cartoon, many regular people died in that 17th Century on which 7th Sea is modeled. And having your foes die in pain from injury and disease was always considered a fate worse than a quick death. Narratively, a Player could even go into grotesque details stating how their Hero sliced the jugular vein of his enemy, leaving the brute bleeding on the floor, or slicing the hand into a stump. Those are damn horrid narratives without requiring immediate death.

TAJ-07: Technopriest And Justicar Of 7thSea2e

Salamanca
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As a GM, the balance you are looking for is that you never need to detail WHAT happens to them.  Once they are down, they are down and you move on to other matters.  Players don't have to declare they are wounding or killing them.  They describe an intent to fight them, overwhelm them or just blandly attack them and we resolve it.  Ideally, you want them doing it with interesting descriptions (beyond "I attack" or "I kill") but that is all you need to devote to the event.  Describe the target going down and move along. 

 

One of the aspects that actually appeal to me about the game is the concept that the heroes don't kill.  they are above that.  It makes it a little harder on them, it lets the bad guys come back to haunt them, and it totally goes against the mindset of most RPGs and I love that. 

Cthulhu Netobvious
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Let us be honest first and foremost: There is a reason that namelss mooks exist in entertainment media. They are EXPENDABLE (not protected by Corruption). Contrast this expendability to the protection afforded those NPCs crucial to the plot for whom the GM may use Corruption as a shield.

I have run several sessions of 7th Sea 2e and I can guarantee that the Corruption mechanics never once broke down when our Heroes cut-through the nameless mooks in all sorts of interesting ways. The Corurption mehanics are excellent tools to preserve the lives of interesting Villains for repeat appearances. Corruption mechanics add no value in wasting time protecting mooks from slaughter, if that is what the Players at a game table prefer.

 

IMPORTANT: Players at a table should ask first: What sort of violence level is okay at this table? And once agreed, the GM rolls with the flavor of the table. 

Some Players will feel sad to see mooks die. In that case tone down the violence. Other Players enjoy mowing down mooks. In that case let blood flow.
 

TAJ-07: Technopriest And Justicar Of 7thSea2e

Potens Aquila
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Hello Dudes, I have a question about a city. I'm not sure if there's mysteries behind it, but in Eisen on the SouthEast corner of The Wälder. There is a city dot without a name. Directly in between Stutzung and Heilgrund. I looked in the Eisen section of the book and didn't see any talk about it. Does any know anything about this city?
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