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Jeff Jones
Jeff Jones's picture
map, politics

I would like to see a political map of 2e Theah that more clearly shows the borders between nations.  This, of course, also includes the principalities of Eisen.

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Wyrd GM
Wyrd GM's picture

I definitely understand the attraction. I love maps, and I love knowing when I am crossing lines, so to speak. 

However, I admit, were I to use maps like that in game, with clearly defined borders, I would probably make two or three different ones. The main reason being that borders are often contested, and rarely perfect. Often times, two nations will claim ownership over the same area, or perhaps two counties. You talk to the farmers in the town, and they say the land to the river belongs to Comte De Fair, but the next town over says it is to the start of the White Forest.

(And bringing in multiple maps, in game, to give the players, all different...!!! Entertainment for days!)

An example within the US, currently. There is a border between Texas and Oklahoma that changes every year, because it is based on the south bank of the Red River. Which then becomes complicated not only by the change of the river, but the definition of the bank, etc.

Actually, that could make for some fun adventures. 

Stopping bandits on the road... but were they actually bandits? Or aggressive agents of the Viscount in the bordering territory, and this is contested area?

Border disputes are a ton of fun in political games.


Mars University
Mars University's picture

This is a really good point. Even today, there are plenty of issues with borders, and states and counties within the United States are regularly re-surveying and re-establishing borders. There's even some debate about where the US-Canada border lies along some good portions about its length (thankfully, these are mostly wilderness so it isn't a huge issue.

Historically, with even more limited resources for cartographers, things get even stranger - natural features (like the Red River example Wyrd gave above) made things a little easier, until they change in size or shape. Also, consider that it was a regular occurence for two or more countries to lay claim to an area for long periods. Both would claim it on their internal maps, but outside powers could mark it as disputed or for any side of the conflict (usually whoever they weren't at war or going to war with at the moment). Whoever could control the region with military force would technically be the rightful claimant (and able to tax the locals), but the second those forces were needed elsewhere, any of the other would-be rulers could sweep in - provided there wasn't a local uprising or a prince or duke from a neighboring country to drop in and claim independent rulership of the region based on a distant line of inheritence. The only way you'd get a real resolution on it was to have the Pope make a decision - then the various monarchs would grudgingly agree to it, but that all went out the window once Protestantism (or, back to the forum's focus here, Objectionism) came on the scene, "sorry, I don't believe Holy Father is the sole arbiter of land rights on Earth anymore, I'm taking it back."

Things could get pretty heavily contested, especially with potentially-valuable border cities like Altamira or Five Sails - real authority could change with the political winds, or you could have a largely independent populace trying to balance all the possible claimants to their land and keep everyone happy so that they don't get beseiged or pillaged when things shift unexpectly. You're going to see a lot of back-alley spywork in these cities, and it won't even be uniform for each nation, especially in the case of nations really lacking central leadership (Eisen and Vodacce, obviously, but there could even be infighting with Montaigne nobility or the Cardinals pulling the strings in Castille, and who even knows who would call the shots for Sarmatia).

Joachim Deneuve...
Joachim Deneuve du Surlign's picture

I'll see what I can do.  The borderrs are there, just hard to see, so it should be possible.

Joachim Deneuve...
Joachim Deneuve du Surlign's picture

I've created something a bit rough, but appear to have nowhere to host it.  If anyone wants it, PM me.

Cthulhu Netobvious
Cthulhu Netobvious's picture

With regards to the draft of the Political Map by @Joachim, when the high resolution version is available, we will post it in the Fan Resources Forum.


TAJ-07: Technopriest And Justicar Of 7thSea2e

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